Tourists Behaving Badly: How to Not Be a Part of the Problem

Tourists Behaving Badly Podcast

[00:00:00] Narrator: Do you dream about your next trip? You're in the right place on the time to talk travel podcast. We come to you weekly to share places to go and what to do when you get there. Let's dive into this week's adventure.

[00:00:16] Nasreen: Welcome to another episode of Time to Talk Travel. We love to think that everybody traveling is doing it for the adventure and the immersion and just being able to see new places and that they are as lovely and respectful as we like to think we are when we travel. But the reality of it is that there have been a lot of stories of tourists behaving badly, whether it is people acting up or acting out or just destroying things. It has come to a point now where some destinations are even saying, you thought you were going to travel here. Don't. Today we are going to dive into these tourists behaving badly. Our own experiences Ciaran, I know that you have a good one for this,

[00:01:04] Ciaran: recently when I was in Rome, I saw archaeologists and antiquities experts using a laser to remove spray paint from the pantheon And it was just so shocking to me because yeah, graffiti in an urban environment Maybe it shouldn't have been shocking because roman graffiti go together hand in hand that spray painted penis was probably, you know predated by a carved

stone penis Somewhere in the pantheon decades ago, but it just it's so disrespectful And there are actually teams of experts who are on hand and specialized equipment, like lasers, to remove it because it's enough of a problem that it happens so frequently.

So it was cool to watch them doing it, but also, horrifying

to me to think that somebody is that, narcissistic to destroy something that is thousands and thousands of years old. And, for all of us to enjoy and see, and I'm just going to spray paint a penis on it.

[00:02:10] Desiree: Narcissistic and entitled. There was a 19 year old, I think who did that at leaning tower Pisa last year. And again, at the Pantheon, there were two different people who, they were carving their names and the rock, with a heart of all things, and it's just, what are you thinking?

Do you not get the symbolism of how old this is and what it stood through? , I think the same thing when I go to places around, America, where it's not nearly as old, but for whatever reason you think it's important to leave your initials, painted on a rock or just what, I don't know.

[00:02:49] Ciaran: I'm more offended by the random tagging and graffiti. I understand street art and I understand people leaving their initials on a tree Even though I think it's so destructive What I don't understand is the people who do things like the couple who got into the tide pool Here to take some photos and they're stepping all over delicate marine animals Like who gives a crap, I need a picture of my belly

[00:03:15] Maureen: the people in National Park, it's,

Do they just not know? Or do just not I I think they're arrogant.

[00:03:21] Ciaran: I think they don't care

know where I live. It's a huge problem and like desiree said we have a problem In all of the clubhouses and the common areas. I live in a fairly affluent community with lovely Amenities for everybody and my hoa fees keep going up.

I sound like i'm like an old lady get off my lawn But no the vandalism and the destruction have been Horrible just heartbreaking. They've had to close a lot of the facilities and it's not people from somewhere else angry at the affluence coming in and destroying it to make a political statement.

It's the very wealthy, entitled, spoiled kids who are destroying everything. There's no accountability because the parents are all lawyers and Better not photograph my kid shooting BB guns at all the mirrors in the bathrooms in the clubhouses because I will sue you,

[00:04:14] Desiree: , they were never held accountable. So what's so wrong? Who's going to stop me? It's that mentality. They're adults, their parents are doing it with the animals. Say they're out on a safari. Here, son, take a picture of me with this Buffalo. It's just

insanity.

[00:04:28] Nasreen: And it's this idea that the rules don't apply to you, right? A lot of times you go to Asian countries and they discuss the rules for taking images in temples, and different religious figures and figurines. You can take pictures of them. That's perfectly fine, but you cannot take selfies with them.

They will remove you from the temple. It doesn't matter. people think the rules do not apply to them. They will still do exactly what they've been told not to do. Even, taking pictures or getting too close to wildlife in the national parks to the point of endangering yourself and others and thinking like, Oh sure they run at some people, but it won't happen to me. you are not immune.

[00:05:07] Maureen: I don't,

special.

you think it's an American problem? I don't think it actually is an exclusively

American problem. Because I've seen people from all over the world behaving quite

[00:05:19] Nasreen: There was a whole campaign. And I know we discussed this right before and said, we're going to bring it up on here. There was a campaign in America recently with people saying, don't come to Miami for your spring break. Don't come. It's not going to be fun.

[00:05:32] Maureen: We're breaking up.

[00:05:33] Nasreen: We're breaking up. It was a great ad.

However, the same method was used by Amsterdam for advertising in England because British men were coming and having their stag parties there and going on pub crawls and just creating a lot of chaos. They did this targeted campaign where they're like, Don't come here to pub crawl. It's not going to be good.

We don't like it. Don't do it. It definitely isn't a uniquely American problem when there are ad campaigns and other countries doing the same thing.

[00:06:01] Maureen: I don't know about the one in Amsterdam, but the Miami one's interesting. Cause they not only went out of their way to say don't come, but if you come, here's how it's going to be. And they're doing a hundred dollar parking. My son lives there. And Miami beaches. South Beach it's a crazy place.

I was there for New Year's a couple years ago. You need to have your wits about you. Once you have a crazy amount of drunken, people come in, especially young people it was, Extremely dangerous. And they had shootings and that's not what they want.

And they're willing to say, you know what? We don't want you, please don't come. We're going to make it a nightmare for you. There's going to be police. There's going to be tickets. There's going to be underage drinking tickets. There's going to be curfews. There's going to be all these things. So it didn't just say, please don't come.

They're like, please don't come. Cause we're going to make it miserable for you.

[00:06:48] Nasreen: You won't have fun.

[00:06:49] Maureen: We're good.

[00:06:50] Desiree: This started years ago Panama city beach, Florida for a while was the Mecca and they fought hard to get MTV down there because they wanted the money. People who own the houses and the properties, they really wanted the dollars to come into town until they realized the dollars were coming from the college kids, but then it was repulsing the families. They lost bigger amounts of money by attracting this little, because there's no one there, for the college spring break, it hits sooner than they get their summer dollars. Ultimately they said the same thing. We're losing in the end. So we're kicking them out. We don't want them. And it came with a lot of, the girls gone wild video is what exposed a lot of it.

Since then a lot of it's criminal, people renting out entire houses to do, Airbnb and doing parties and it turns into a shooting.

And typically it's not even college kids. It's not. Other people come here to party with college kids and it turns bad. And that's what happened in Miami.

[00:07:45] Nasreen: It was doing the same thing in South Padre. They got a reputation. It had always been families before that. But this goes back to another episode where we talked about, traveling for special events and going places for, the eclipse or for flowers or for things like that.

And to remember that. People live there. What Miami is doing is attempting to not have it get completely out of control and a hot mess for the people who live there and the families who want to come visit and want to know that it's not going to be just chaos. It does go back to that.

Remember, behaving badly isn't just defacing things or wandering around a town drunk. It might be. Going and stopping traffic in the middle of a road or being reckless so that you can get a photo. I forgot this the last time we did this episode, but when I lived in Texas, I was on the blue bonnet route and we had a guy in a red Corvette sports car.

He stopped his car on the middle of the rural highway that I lived on and got out with his car parked and started taking a picture. This is a 65 mile an hour rural highway that is twisting and turning. Had anyone come at that moment, It would have put everyone in extreme danger. And again, the rules apply to you.

I don't care what car you have. I don't care what picture you want to take. You can't stop in the road.

[00:09:01] Desiree: The whole doing it for the gram thing is really taking people to an extreme. It's also remembering where you are in time and place. When I was in Europe this past year, I went to a concentration camp and I was appalled at people taking photos in barracks where people,

went through sheer hell and they're standing there smiling with the beds behind them.

Are you even,

[00:09:25] Ciaran: I was so appalled. People were treating it like it was Auschwitz lands when I was there. The types of pictures they were taking were so insanely disrespectful.

[00:09:36] Maureen: There's no respect for history. And I don't know if that's because we've started tearing down statues and we're rewriting history to whatever narrative, whoever wants it to be from whatever perspective you want it to be. The lack of respect is taking a selfie there and smiling and be like, ah, versus saying, documenting it for your own memory and your own respect. The lack of respect is just disgusting. I don't know where or when that started to change, but when we start tearing things down and rewriting history to suit whatever you can't really be surprised if people don't respect it.

[00:10:11] Desiree: I think you're right. It's a combination of entitlement, lacking awareness, narcissism to an extent. It's all about me. It's not about the person behind,

[00:10:20] Maureen: else does it.

[00:10:21] Desiree: right.

[00:10:22] Ciaran: We live in a very instant gratification way of life. And I think that's global. A lot of social media has really changed the way that we live and communicate.

When I was in Cinque Terre, there were tons of tourists and these little old ladies were just practically pushing people off cliffs and wreaking havoc. They're women in their 50s and 60s and 70s even who had brought Their parasols And their outfits and their inappropriate shoes. They wanted to take 1600 pictures on these narrow winding trails where it was very necessary for everyone to cooperate to safely walk by each other on these trails. And they're staging their photo

shoots there.

[00:11:06] Nasreen: Seriously, the photo shoots. You are in a tourist place with other people who also want to see things and take pictures. You can't block everything off and conduct your own personal photo shoot and be obnoxious about it. Be like, Oh no, don't walk there.

We're taking a picture. It's not always about you.

[00:11:22] Desiree: When you stand up and you say something to people doing this, cause I saw it in Santorini too. You're a Karen because you say, Hey, you know what? There are a lot of people behind you that want to take a picture.. You get 10 seconds, not 10 minutes, and you don't get to tell me what to do.

You don't, you're not the boss of me. I know, but I'm just being considerate. Just saying, call me Karen if you want.

[00:11:43] Maureen: Manners have disappeared.

[00:11:44] Ciaran: In a way, my last trip to Europe, I felt like I was photo documenting all of the tourists acting badly. It became a whole theme of my trip and it became very amusing for me. I was in the Sagrada Familia in Barcelona. There's an Instagram wife there. She was determined to get the right picture of herself looking very reverent in the middle of the Sagrada Familia.

But she had to clear an area and she had to have her husband lay down on the floor and get the right angle while she posed, looking up, upwards at

[00:12:20] Maureen: book it like a proper photo shoot and book it and pay for it.

[00:12:23] Ciaran: The funniest was that she was looking so beautiful and reverent. Then she would look at the photos and she would start screaming at him and berating.

[00:12:30] Nasreen: What's the Instagram account about? Like influencers in the wild or something where it's Yeah. The behind. Yeah, exactly. So instead of it being her picture of the re they're showing what they did to get that picture and yeah, just the world is always watching .

[00:12:46] Maureen: People getting bathing suit shots right in front of somebody's table at a restaurant because the view is pretty just, I don't know.

Even at the palace, the changing of the guard I saw a family who came up really close to one of the horses, and the horse nibbled on the child's leg, and they got mad, and I'm like, Get away from the horse who's working!

That is not the horse's fault. That is your fault.

[00:13:08] Desiree: That was something else we wanted to hit on and we were talking about people who do these, things and then complain, Oh, I went camping and there were mosquitoes. No one said there would be mosquitoes, naz, you wanted about that.

[00:13:19] Nasreen: Oh because I always love the bad reviews for the places that everyone goes to. It speaks to the level of entitlement sometimes. I had copied over a couple of the reviews, particularly National Park ones always make me giggle. There was a one star review for Arches National Park.

More arches, please. Honestly, I thought there'd be more arches. Arches as far as the eye can see. It's called Arches National Park. Are there formations as far as the eye can see? Sure, but then call it Formations National Park. Or a few arches scattered over thousands of acres National Park.

Don't come expecting every arch to look like the one on the license plate, because it's one of the few that's impressive. This place gets one star because the name is seriously misleading. Oh, I

[00:14:05] Maureen: nothing that's gonna

make that person happy in life.

[00:14:07] Nasreen: Oh my God, I love it. . So we've also got the Grand Canyon. Once you have been to Yellowstone, the Grand Canyon is a joke and I'm an Arizona native.

There are no animals, no greenery, no clear blue streams, just a muddy river, rock, and sheer cliffs. You'll go ooh and ah for 30 seconds and then feel guilty that you're ready to leave after that. I've been to Yellowstone twice with buffalo herds walking near my car, an entire elk herd passing me when I went hiking, bald eagles so big I thought it was Jurassic Park, bears twice, and even a wolf trying to steal a baby buffalo in the standoff among a herd. At the Grand Canyon a hole. A very large hole. But it's okay, because people also complained about Yellowstone, so it's not, everybody's different, whatever.

[00:14:48] Ciaran: In all fairness, that's accurate.

[00:14:50] Desiree: That's like going to Hawaii and then complaining it's wet.

[00:14:53] Maureen: Too many waves.

[00:14:54] Desiree: Yes,

[00:14:54] Nasreen: I just, I think it, it kills me sometimes.

[00:14:56] Maureen: There's too much sand at the beach.

I love that one.

[00:14:59] Desiree: right. And that's what they do. They give these ratings and then you're like, for real. Maybe that just goes back to,

[00:15:06] Maureen: Some people are not meant to travel. That's what it means. Stay home. Behave yourself..

[00:15:11] Desiree: I was reading an article about, the growing trend and people being obnoxious and rude and disrespectful.

And they're like, this is not new. This is something that's been part of, time forever. They were going about travelers and people on planes and what have you. And I disagree. I think it really increased with Covid. I think that was like an overnight. Once people got back on planes and they had to wear masks and they didn't want to.,

All of the sudden we're punching flight attendants and they're just doing their job.

They may not even agree.

[00:15:36] Maureen: I think there's always been bad travelers.

[00:15:39] Desiree: But not slapping and punching the flight attendants. Maybe we just hear about it more because

[00:15:43] Maureen: I think so, yeah. I think people forgot how to travel. you

didn't travel for anywhere from one to four years.

[00:15:50] Nasreen: I traveled so much for work. I'd like to think that between me and my other travel, folks at the same company, we had a couple of stories, right? But they were usually semi funny or something a little weird. One time I had a guy on a flight who's just kept spitting but nothing punching, right?

Weird. And it has I think it's escalated. I know we're hearing about it more and I know it's getting reported on more. So there's an awareness of the situation, but we traveled a lot and we didn't have these types of stories as business travelers that we do now where people are like, Oh my goodness, I can't believe this happened.

We diverted, someone tried to open the plane door. We had to tackle someone. The stories now are just getting more and more aggressive, would be the case because there were always weirdos flying. There were always people doing strange things, people bringing things on they shouldn't have.

I can't tell you how many random animals I've seen get taken away from people when they put them places you're not supposed to.

[00:16:44] Ciaran: I think there's been a cultural shift in this country towards entitlement and towards narcissism. You could blame a political party, you could blame a public figure, but It's everyone. I think that people are just much, much more entitled and narcissistic than they were 20 years ago or 30 years

[00:17:04] Desiree: Everyone wants to go viral and

[00:17:06] Maureen: our kids live for it.

[00:17:07] Desiree: yeah, we may be part of the problem

[00:17:09] Maureen: We were part of the problem.

We started the blogging. We started the travel blogging. We are the OG problem,

but we are respectful and polite

[00:17:16] Nasreen: Do you remember how much and I feel like I still do warn my kids, but I know that whenever I went out and did anything when I was younger, I was going on a trip, or you remember when you leave this house, you represent this family. And that was before somebody could snap my picture and put it online to show I was being naughty.

[00:17:32] Maureen: Video your whole

[00:17:33] Nasreen: Exactly. I feel like there isn't that whole You represent us when you go out, and to some degree, that's good. It was a little overbearing and I'm glad people are expressing themselves more now, but maybe if we could reel in that way, maybe if we could just think about how it lives online for a long time afterwards and just reel in our manners and then vent when we get in our house.

[00:17:55] Desiree: Your legacy should not be that you carved your name into the Coliseum.

[00:17:59] Maureen: That's what's hitting the media, right? They're destroying art in museums, art galleries, all over the world in name of climate change. I don't know how destroying a priceless piece of art or tearing down a statue is going to change something. It's attention getting in a rude and disgusting way, but, It's prevalent now.

It's, you, the people who handcuff themselves and throw soup and paint and whatnot.

[00:18:26] Desiree: I was going to say soup on the Mona Lisa.

[00:18:29] Maureen: The security never thought would happen because we've had a level of respect and reverence for history and art and, no matter what those people did in their own time. Now we're judging that way and be able to go and to disrespect different cultures just because they don't believe the same thing as you doesn't mean you have any right especially on their own home turf to Be disrespectful.

[00:18:56] Ciaran: I don't think that destruction ever serves the greater good. Destroying something precious to gather attention or to make a point or to win, it doesn't make the world a better place. The world is a better place when you preserve beauty and you build things together. And

[00:19:18] Maureen: Learn from history. respectful.

[00:19:21] Ciaran: Respect one another. I have no problem with any culture except for the culture that is destroying things. That's the bottom line for me. I will uphold anyone's, beauty and culture and all of that as long as part of that culture isn't destruction.

[00:19:37] Nasreen: We were talking before about seeing more incidences with the airlines. Social media has brought to light things that we may not have known about before. there's a passenger shaming Instagram. There are flight attendants who document things on TikTok.

There is more visibility into what has actually been going on. And they'll even talk sometimes and say we always had drunk passengers. This has not changed at all, but we never had this happening regularly. And now it is. So if you want a good chuckle, passenger shaming on Instagram, just Pretty hilarious, because I think we've all, and we talked about this before on another episode, of things people do on planes that they shouldn't do on planes.

I've had people cut their toenails on a plane. That's disgusting. No one should do that. But also I'd rather have someone doing that than someone punching the flight attendant. Maureen's no.

[00:20:28] Maureen: Don't do either one.

One my friends is a flight attendant and she just posted like, Hey, PSA, the toilet's flush on the plane.

yes,

she's what the hell, people? Can they not? There's no handle. I get it. It's a button, but it's not rocket science.

[00:20:42] Desiree: There are the same people who aren't flushing in a public restroom.

[00:20:45] Maureen: God, you know they're not washing their hands.

[00:20:47] Desiree: Exactly.

[00:20:48] Maureen: But we still travel. We carry on.

[00:20:50] Desiree: Yeah social media has

incentivized people to behave badly. In some ways you can make a lot of money. Again, we did it for a while writing about, what we saw on our travels. I'm writing a book now about tales from the terminal, which is, airport and airplane stories where it is not at all a book about shaming people. There are definitely shameful things written.

[00:21:10] Maureen: Taken everything nice away and you're crammed in like a sardine. You're tired. You're frustrated.

It's not comfort. You might as well be on the city bus. You just need to get there and just keep your cool. And with everything that everybody has going on in life, somebody's going to lose it.

It's inevitable. Every one of the flights I've been on lately has been jam packed. So you're crammed in, you're with smelly, rude people, and at some point somebody's gonna break.

[00:21:39] Nasreen: And there's an us versus them mentality that, to be honest, is sometimes earned. You look at things that cause frustration in airports and things that kind of drive people over the edge. Things like it was Frontier who was telling people even though their bags fit in the carry on sized thing and people were taking videos of it and they're showing my bag is in there.

It's in there all the way and they're still saying you need to pay for this. We have to check it. It doesn't fit in the carry on bag bin and they are showing a video. There's people arguing. They're taking them off the flights. We find out later that they're incentivized, that they get to keep the money from the luggage. This is how the airline is bonusing them.

That just sets up this type of behavior. If you have that kind of tension and the rules are in place, but they're crap rules. They're designed to make more money for the airline or to punish us, then it's harder to get people to follow the rules that are there for your safety or that are valid and they do it to themselves sometimes.

[00:22:40] Desiree: 100 Percent.

[00:22:41] Maureen: Already riled up before they're even on the plane.

[00:22:43] Desiree: how do we make it better? Is there anything we can be doing that, or is the tide just too far gone?

the,

[00:22:51] Maureen: I think it's gotta be

of those things where, you know we do our best with our own behavior. We talk about it here, so hopefully

a few people go yeah, maybe I'll be a little more respectful next time.

Not everybody has traveled the world like we have and have had the experiences we have.

And I think that gives us a lot of insight and knowledge and privilege into understanding different places, different people, different things.

[00:23:13] Ciaran: Maybe what we need to do is write a book about people behaving well during traveling,

[00:23:19] Nasreen: I like the positive

[00:23:20] Ciaran: inspirational feed.

[00:23:21] Maureen: I have

That I've met on a plane.

I was with them for maybe an hour or four hours. And ten years later, I still see their stuff. We're still social media friends.

[00:23:32] Desiree: you're right.

[00:23:33] Maureen: There is a lot of good that comes out of it. And, we can't let a few rotten apples ruin the batch.

Or the

the what? The bunch?

The basket? know. What are apples in?

[00:23:42] Desiree: I guess too, when we see things like somebody carving, or doing the wrong thing, reporting it. Tell an authority there.

[00:23:49] Nasreen: Film it.

[00:23:49] Desiree: Of course, but

[00:23:51] Maureen: But

with that. with that too just don't know. Somebody who's that disrespectful sees you filming or sees you reporting.

especially if you're holding a knife.

do it discreetly and do it smartly.

[00:24:02] Ciaran: I don't know even that shaming people and doxing people and covering people behaving badly. I think in some ways it publicizes the behavior and it

people to try and get away with the same. I think that, I believe in the carrot and not the stick, so

I think that being inspirational and giving people attention for behaving well.

This is like my psychology. , I almost became a teacher, pardon me.

I think, encouraging people to act better and making that be a focus is a far more positive and more likely way to create change.

[00:24:37] Nasreen: And that goes back to the entitlement thing that we were talking about earlier. If you are nice and kind, and you ask for something nicely, and you say, look, I totally understand. When we went to New York, I was on a point stay. I think we paid $12 for the hotel because I had almost enough points.

So it was like 3 a night or something.

I messaged before and I said, Hey, it's our anniversary. I know I'm a non rev essentially, like you're not going to make any revenue off of me, but if there's any opportunity for an upgrade, we're on our anniversary, I would love it.

If possible, if not, I completely understand. They shot us up to one of the top floors. We got an upgrade. It was no problem. I'm a diamond member, but I didn't expect it. And so I think that when you ask for things nicely and you just say, Hey, we would totally love it.

This is a special occasion for us. This is what the deal is. Completely understand if you can't do it because I think there is such a, the idea that people are going to be upset with you or scream at you no matter what. And so to just set it up with, Hey, would love this. Understand if it can't happen, we appreciate you.

[00:25:41] Ciaran: That makes them want to rise to the occasion. They're not under pressure to do it, but that they're more likely to want to do it. Okay.

will fix whatever it is and then you might not even

[00:26:09] Maureen: And then they have to top that would want to even try?

[00:26:12] Nasreen: 100%. We lost poor Des. She dropped off cause the Wi Fi died and, apparently she didn't yell at it enough and punch it and tell it to do what she wanted it to.

[00:26:21] Maureen: I'm sure she's doing that right now.

[00:26:23] Nasreen: we are going to wrap up this episode of Tourists behaving badly, things that we never thought we'd see, why it happens, and the psychological reasons behind it.

So any last words about people carving their names into things? No, it's just, don't do it.

[00:26:37] Maureen: don't do it.

[00:26:39] Nasreen: a good traveler, respect people, respect yourself, be nice to people.

[00:26:43] Maureen: Everything from Space Shuttle to history do not need your initials.

[00:26:47] Nasreen: Oh my goodness. Being remembered for the wrong reasons all around. Okay. Until next time.

Happy travels, safe travels, happy non destructive travels, happy respectful travels, one of those will work, right?

[00:26:59] Narrator: This has been another episode of Time to Talk Travel, brought to you by HashtagTravels. com. You can keep in touch with us between episodes by checking out our site, joining our newsletter, or connecting with us on social. We've always got the information you need in our episode notes. Until next time, happy travels, and thanks for being a part of our trip.